An example of the danger of assumed positions.

Find - "You've missed the point completely. Of course, rape is a violation of rights - for the victim. So it is with abortion. I suppose you are going to tell me that the unborn choose to be aborted? You don't even notice that in your argument you switched the victim and the accomplice! The real victim isn't even mentioned in your argument! Where is your logic?"

Apparently, when Find substituted rape for abortion in my belief statement, she meant that the victim of abortion was the embryo. Sorry dude, it just didn't come through.

The misunderstanding is a good example of how difficult it can be for two people to communicate when they come from completely different positions. This is usually because they are operating from a different set of assumptions, and that those assumptions are obvious is taken for granted by one or both parties.

My assumption was that a non-conscious entity could not be a victim. Find's assumption was the opposite, neither were neatly spelled out for the other's benefit, misunderstanding and anger ensued.

I imagine that Find and I would have very different takes on the criteria of person-hood as well as whether or not a fetus should have the same rights as the woman.

My position, for the record, is that a fertilised egg, blastocyst, embryo or fetus should not have the same rights as a woman. This includes the right to life. You cannot have equal human rights between parties that are not equally human. That is, one is a fully fledged functioning human being and one is not even self aware. This view depends heavily on the criteria for personhood which I do not have room for here. The Value of Life by John Harris gives a good introduction to personhood.

My position on victimhood, for the record, is that in order to be a victim, you have to have the capacity to know that you are being done a harm, at the very least. Since an embryo does not have the capacity to know this, it simply didn't occur to me that an embryo could be a victim. I don't believe that an embryo is "a life" in the same way that a full term baby is "a life" so do not confer victimhood on an embryo that has not gone on to become a baby.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.